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It was an unusually bright January day when I met up with CIRITH UNGOL drummer Rob Garven to talk about the metal days of yore. With recordings over 20 years old about to be excavated [āServants of Chaosā, a two-disc set recently released on Metal Blade Germany. -PMG], I felt it was high time to bring to light the valiant story of this unjustly neglected band. I hopped on Southern Californiaās 101 Freeway and headed northwest from the San Fernando Valley towards Robās coastal hometown, Ventura, California, a good 40 miles north of L.A. Thatās where the Cirith Ungolites grew up and joined forces, back in the early 1970sāwhere they forged some of the 20th Centuryās most unique and influential true heavy metal. With four albums under their belt, Cirith Ungol have solidified themselves as a cult favorite both on American shores and to the European epic/doom metal fanatics. As one of the bands who bridged the gap between heavy/progressive ā70s rock and balls-out ā80s metal, Cirith Ungolās sound attacks the listener with Robās thunderous double bass drumming, Greg Lindstrom and Jerry Fogleās intermingling fuzzed-out and plate-mail thick guitar tones, Michael āFlintā Vujeaās slamming bass, and Tim Bakerās distinctive high-ranged vocals that could turn raspy and guttural at the drop of a hat.
Over twenty-five years before a second generation black metal band (whom I will not mention here) would come along with a similar name there was CIRITH UNGOL. This unlikely moniker may have inspired more than a laugh or two from nonbelieversāthose ignorant of fantasy fiction or heavy-as-hell rock. To the worldwide cult of metalheads, Cirith Ungol stands out above the masses, with a sound so massive and ominous that it still is remembered to this day, nearly thirty years after its inception. The bandās sunny hometown is by no means the dismal industrial dig of Birmingham, England, where Black Sabbath sprouted demonic wings. Still, seaside Ventura spawned a band whose work and imagery could best be described as doom incarnate! One need look only as far as such downer anthems as āBetter Off Deadā, āDeath of the Sunā, āDoomed Planetā, and āFinger of Scornā to see that Cirith Ungol werenāt your usual happy-go-lucky party band.
The conversation between Rob and I drifted from his passion for cars, our mutual love for heavy-ass ā70s rock, and of course to the forthcoming European CD release of rare Cirith Ungol demos. For most of the afternoon, our words were nearly drowned out by the tunes blaring on the stereo as Rob and I roared down the Ventura streets and freeway in his red 1975 Ferrari Dino 308 GT4, the sound of the music eclipsed only by the maniacal sound of the four double throat Weber carburetors screaming in finely tuned unison at the top of their lungs. It seems Rob has traded his drums for a prancing gasoline-driven stallionāand traded the sound of heavy metal for the sound of a thousand gnashing gears. Few things can match the sound of a Ferrari, but this summer Rob completed major engine work himself on this carāand its mechanical symphony can truly wake the living dead! The whole way I had the lyrics from C.U.ās ā100 MPHā from their third album ONE FOOT IN HELL stuck in my head: āComing like a hurricane/A hundred miles an hour/We donāt stop for nothing/Cause weāve got the powerā. Though no cops bothered to mess with Robās Ferrari as we sped along, it was clear to see where the inspiration for the track had come from! While we prowled through Robās vast collection of rare ā70s vinyl, my questions turned to his bandās history. First the Ferrari exhaust roared, then tunes by the likes of Night Sun, Moxy, A Foot in Cold Water, Granicus, Tempest, Tin House, and other ā70s heavies assaulted our ears.
Perry: So, you guys were the first band approached by Brian Slagel to appear on his METAL MASSACRE comp., werenāt you? How did you hook up with him?
Rob: From what I rememberāitās different if you read the Metal Blade websiteāBrian was working at Oz Records, which was down on Topanga Canyon Blvd., and he was really in to hard rock. And there was another record store down there.
Perry: Moby Disc?
Rob: Yeah, Moby Disc [a record store in Canoga Park, CA. -PMG]. And me and Greg [Lindstrom] would drive all the way to the Valley, ācause thereāre no good stores up here. And thatās where weād go get the heavy stuff. And there was a guy in there with glasses who looked like Brian too. He called me and Greg the Thin Lizzy Brothers, ācause we loved Thin Lizzy. I rememberāthis is after the band [Cirith Ungol] had been startedāwe used to make our own t-shirts. It wasnāt like actually having them printed. Weād actually draw the logo on a white T-shirt and wear it. People thought that was really cool. I even had these white tennis shoes that I painted like an American flag, but I got thrown out of 7th grade ācause I had these. I was like this little nerdy guy, but it was during the Vietnam War, and I guess it was like a protest or something. Getting back to Brian, he worked at Oz Records, and somehow we got hooked up talking about bands we liked and how he wanted to start his own record label. He actually hooked us up with Greenworld Distribution, which was the forerunner of Enigma and Restless. In a way he did us a favor, but probably that was the worst thing we did in our career was sign with those guys [Enigma]. Even though we got our records out, we were totally screwed all the way along. Whatās funny is maybe if we hadnāt have done that, we probably wouldnāt have had our first album out.
Thereās another part of that that I havenāt told any of these other interviewers. We had this friend of ours, Randy Jackson, who was kinda this partier kinda guy. Heās the guy whose picture was on the album, who was credited as executive producer. He was just here last weekend.
Perry: How did the first album, āFrost and Fireā, come into being?
Rob: We were in a battle of the bands every year for 10 years, and every year we lost. ācause they wanted dance bands. So they could throw dances with the winner and make money off it. But weād always go and weād kick ass. The other bands were doing covers of the Beach Boys and stuff, and weād go out there and play āFrost and Fireā and some of our songs thatāll be on this upcoming [demo] CD. What was really funny about that is this one year the way it was all falling down it looked like we or this other band who we knew were gonna come in first place. When they went to go take the last round, they couldnāt get their guitar amp to work. So, what we did is we loaned them one of our amps, and they won ācause they were a dance band. We always kept thinking if we hadnāt have done that they couldnāt have played. Even though some bands were pretty mean to us, we were pretty nice to every band, loaning them equipment and stuff. Which is kinda weird, especially in a competition. Anyway, we came in second, and we got something like $300 worth of free recording at this local recording studio. Weād already been together for ten years, and we had all these songs. We had our own little studio, but weād never been to a big recording studio. We went down there and we started recording. I think we did āBetter off Deadā and āWhat Does It Takeā. And thereās another story behind this: even though the band was really heavy and into super-heavy music we knew in order to get on the radio and whatever you had to play shit that was pretty commercial. Which we all hated. But āWhat Does It Takeā and āBetter Off Deadā were songs we thought werenāt like Black Sabbathās stuff, but more something somebody could listen to on the radio. I donāt know if thatās true or not, but those were the two songs we did originally.
We had this friend Randy, and heād been in an oil field, and he was in an accident where they broke his back, so he got a bunch of cash. So, he said, āIāll loan you the money to do the rest of the record if you pay me back.ā So we borrowed money from him and I borrowed money from my parents, and finished recording the album. What happened was after we had the record out, we had nowhere to sell it. We had this record, and weād made about 5000 originally. Which actually might not sound like many, but we stacked them up in my parents house and we had like six foot stacks, like 10 boxes 6 feet high all the way across. We had all these records, and we were trying to figure out what to do with them. Brian was selling some at Oz Records, and he hooked us up to Greenworld. Thatās how we met Bill and Wes Hein, and those guys. At first they were really cool, and the company was importing all this stuff from all over the world and selling it here in the U.S., and they said, āWell, hey, weāll sell the record.ā They had guys that sat in cubicles who would actually promote it and call around to the record stores. Stuff that theyāre not doing now for us, but back then these guys would call around. And all of a sudden…we just sold 5000 records like that. So we needed more money if we were gonna print up another 5000, and thatās when they said, āWhy donāt we just put it out on their new label that weāre gonna start, Enigma.ā And we go, āThatās fine.ā But we wanted to see what it was all gonna be about. It turned out in the long run thatāIām if it was the best decision we madeāwe ended up signing a five-year deal with them. What was funny is the next band they signed was Motley Crue, and then right about the time our second album came out they signed Ratt, Stryper, and all those kinds of glam bands. Well itās kinda strange. I remember Motley Crueāyouāre probably not interested in this for our interviewāhad this real estate developer who spent a couple hundred thousand dollars on them. Promoting them, getting them gigs, and equipment, and stuff. When they got signed away to Elektra they told the guy to get lost. Thatās why I never really had any respect for those guys.
Iāll tell you another funny joke…We would always go down to Greenworld to help do stuff and promote the band. One night we were sticking our album and Motley Crue record into a package to mail out. We had pictures of us and brochures, and stuff we made up ourselves. Motley Crue had all this stuff they [Greenworld] made up for them. Weāre out there doing it like hundreds at a time. Sometimes weād take a Motley Crue record and break before weād put it in the package to mail out. I mean, basically, Motley Crue treated us like shit. I thought Motley Crue sucked, and I didnāt like their album. Some people liked it, but to me they were just a glam band. Iāve got a picture from that same thing I took that night. Tommy Lee and those guys had beaufon hairdos a foot tall. And we thought, āThese guys are fags.ā Thatās what we thought at the time. Even if it was like a joke or something, I thought it was just bad taste. Anyway, we hooked up with Greenworld, and they put the record out. About the same time we made enough money to pay Randy off. We paid my parents off. I borrowed money from the bank. We paid them off. So, weād actually broken even. The problem was we were never given any money for a second album [budget]. So, I went to the bank and borrowed twenty of thirty thousand dollars over a several year period to record āKing of the deadā. I was going through thess period where I was having these really bad headaches, and I was freaking out. Just stress related. ācause if this thing didnāt go, I was gonna be hung out on a limb. As soon as āFrost and fireā was over we had the [new] music written, but it took so long to raise the money, go in the studio and record the album, paying for it as we went along. And the whole time too we were waiting for Enigma. There was something going on there, I canāt remember with that. They were switching over to the different name or something. And it took three or four years in between records. Which is crazy. We put out āFrost and Fireā in ā81. I think they released their version in ā82, and āKing of the deadā came out in ā84. So, the reason for all the breaks between our albums is ācause we didnāt have any money. If someone said, āHereās a budget. Go do a record.ā We could have had ten records out.
Perry: So Enigma didnāt advance you a recording budget recoupable from album royalties when you signed with them?
Rob: No recording budget, no tour support, no advertising. Part of the deal for āKing of the deadā was we had two half-page ads in like HIT PARADER and KERRANG. I did all the artwork for that myself. And that was recoupable. After our first album was already out, Brian wanted to put out his METAL MASSACRE compilation. We played a couple of times in L.A. at places like the Whiskey and the Starwood, and Brian would come and introduce us and stuff. And I remember him saying, āHey man, you guys are one of my favorite bands, and I want you to be on my record.ā We ended up being the first song on the second side. I think we kinda taped that too, ācause the first song on the first side always has to be something that people recognize or like so much. But I always found that on a lot of the heavy albums that I like, the first song on the second side is always the heaviest. I donāt know if thatās true with a lot of albums, but thatās how we saw it. So, thatās where we first did āDeath of a Sunā. We actually went into the studio with Brian. We recorded it, and he mixed it. I think he actually even paid for it at the time. āKing of the deadā cost a lot of money ācause we spent a lot of time doing that. But not one song. We went in did the basic tracks and the solos all at once. Thatās gonna be re-released on the new double CD.
I remember Brian as being very cool back then. Weād go over his house every once in a while. I know he was a big fan of Iron Maiden at the time. He mustāve known Metallica because they were on that record too, but I donāt remember them being as good of friends as weāre led to believe today. Hereās what Iād say: Iām not even sure if Brian even likes me as a person, but I have respect for him. I have friendship that goes back with him, and I overlook anything [bad]. I felt we didnāt get that fair of a shake from Metal Blade on āOne foot in hellā, but I still like Brian as a person. I wish that we were still friends. What I thinkās funny is that if we were big right now, I would put my record out on Metal Blade because of Iām friends with Brian. If Metallica were such big-ass friends with him, and they could do anything they want to they could be making Brian a millionaire. And they could be supporting a thousand other metal acts. Every time theyād sell ten million records thatād pump money into the metal scene for Metal Blade Records. So, thatās my question. If these guys are such good friends, why are the guys in Metallica not supporting Metal Blade. I guarantee…itās like we got three offers for this new double CD thing in Europe, but because Michael [Trengert] and the Metal Blade office in Europe are so nice to me…thatās why I went with Metal Blade. I feel like when you shake hands and youāre honest with people and people treat you write, you should reciprocate. If we sold a million copies, and he goes, āHey, remember Iām the guy that put out that record no one else wanted to,ā Iād probably go, āHey, fine, weāll do our next big record with you.ā
Perry: How did you wind up on Metal Blade for āOne foot in hellā in 1986? Did the five-year deal with Enigma run out?
Rob: The reason we stayed on Enigma was we were thinking they were going to do a bunch more for us, which they never did. I remember going to Brianās house and giving him a copy of āKing of the deadā, and his exact words were, āThis shouldāve been on my label.ā So I go, āWell, look these guys have kinda fucked us over. Weāll sign with you and do our next album, āOne foot in hellā, on there.ā Thatās another whole story about that album. At time Brian was like right across from the Reseda Country Club, and he had a little office. But Iām sure that when we came out with it in Summer ā86, over the three month period I think every week they released an album. Letās say there was like twelve. Maybe a couple a week. I just remember this enormous number of bands. And itās like at Metal Blade they promote the one band for a couple of days and then theyāre already on to the next band. So, they really didnāt have the people or the machinery in power to actually promote our band or any one of these bands. Flotsam and Jetsam, who came out around that time…I donāt think they were doing that good until the guy in Metallica died, and when the guy went off to join Metallica. So, all of a sudden everyone knew about them. Same thing with the guy who used to be in Metallica. And I donāt really follow them too closely, but …
Perry: You mean Dave Mustaine and Megadeth?
Rob: Yeah! If he hadnāt have been in Metallica you wouldnāt know who he was. Iām not saying these bands are bad Iām just trying to say that the luck they got was being hooked on with Metallica when they hit big. We recorded āKing of the deadā where they did some of the Megadeth albums in Venice. Itās scary as hell. It wasnāt really my choice, but we went down there. I remember parking the car and walking in like gang territory.
Perry: So, thatās 1986 with āOne foot in hellā, and then about 5 years until āParadise Lostā. What happened?
Rob: Thereās a whole story behind that. Jerry left the band after āOne foot in hellā, which is really kinda sad. We picked up a guy Jimmy Barazza, who was a great guitarist. He had some of his own personal problems, but other than that he was a really good guitarist and wrote some really good songs. We found Jimmy because he was a local guitarist playing in another band. Just like how we found Flint originally. Our goal was to get Jimmy and Jerry to play double leads. That was the thing. Jerry was such a good lead guitarist, but he wasnāt that good at rhythm because his brain was on a different wavelength. He couldnāt play really standard chuggy rhythms for some reason, because thatās not where his brain lay. He wrote all this weird avant garde heavy metal crap for his solos. So, we thought weād get a guy that would be really good at rhythms, youāre gonna play leads, and then youāll trade off. Jerry kinda felt like we were trying to replace him, which we werenāt. Thatās not the only reason, but he ended up leaving the band. He was tired of coming to practice, writing fan mail, paying a hundred bucks a week or so to keep the band going. After literally being together for 15 years, we never made a penny. Every month Iām going, āYou gotta give me your band rent, and I need $100 for postage, and the phone billās $300.ā And after a while heās just going, āWell, what the hell am I doing?ā After Jerry left we were with Jimmy. We recorded this āParadise Lostā stuff in our home studio. We wrote all these songs, and we were ready to do it. By this time Enigma was going through bankruptcy with Capitol Records. And I talked this guy Ron Goudie into doing the record. So, we got ready, we signed the deal and everything. What was funny about this whole thing is they had to go through their bankruptcy and set up a new company and this and that before we could put the record out. So it was 3 years from the time we signed the record deal till the record came out. None of that was our fault. It was all because of the bullshit with the record company. After the record had been out for three weeks we got a letter in the mail saying āSorry but we dropped your contract.ā We had a contract with them, and every record wouldāve meant more and more money, more and more control with tour support. After the first record came out, they couldnāt get it released in Europe. They didnāt even try. They kept telling me, āYou go to the guys in Europe and try to get your album released there.ā I go, āIām in the band. You guys are the record company. Why donāt you call one of your buddies in Europe, distributors, and get it released. Well, I wrote letters. I talked to the guy at Roadrunner Records, and he said PL was too dated sounding, and no one would listen to it. No one liked it. So they didnāt want to put it out. I donāt know what Brian was doing at the time, but basically they put it on me to do all the promotion for this albumāand I wasnāt a record company. So what happened was, is the band pretty much splintered over that whole thing.
(To be continued…)
Perry M. Grayson
6442 Pat Ave.
West Hills, CA 91307
818-348-3814
fortress@thevine.net
Conducted January 6, 2001 by Perry M. Grayson
Copyright Ā© 2001 by Perry M. Grayson
Psychedelic Zine – Double Issue #9/#10
PSYCHEDELIC FANZINE – ISSUE #11/#12 (DOUBLE ISSUE): “CIRITH UNGOL (US)” is only text.