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How are you doing? Have you gotten here today?
[Robert Garven] Yes, we played Switzerland last night in Basel and we drove through the Alps. It was beautiful!
Tomorrow youāll be playing here at the Metalitalia Festival, a show that many people waited for a very long time. Is it bittersweet to finally play in Italy for the first time only for your farewell tour?
[Tim Baker] Yeah, it has been [bittersweet] for a while, I mean, weāre playing all these places for the first time, like he said we played Switzerland yesterday and we hadnāt played there before either so yeah, itās bittersweet but itās pretty awesome.
[RG] Weāve been booked here three or four times before but all the shows fell through.
I was planning to come see you in 2022 but the show, and eventually the tour, was cancelled.
[TB] That pesky COVID probably yeah, I remember that.
[RG] Look, I gotta get something out of the way right here: when we called this the final tour we were having some serious kind of issues in the band, but those issues have all gone away now. And so, even though this was planned as our final tour I want you to know that personally, I canāt speak for no one else, Iām not done yet and my goal is to keep the band together and playing. So, I want you to know that this is myā¦
[TB] Itās his goal.
[RG] I want you to understand where Iām coming from. Itās like, if you get diagnosed with cancer and you sell all your stuff and youāre getting ready to die and the doctor goes, āWell, you know what, you have five more years to liveāā¦. It changes your whole perspective. Like I said, we had some major issues in the band and they pretty much went away and so now weāre playing better than we ever did before. Heās singing better, and all our fans are going āDonāt quit, donāt quit!ā.
But weāve already promised everyone this is the last time weāre playing here and there and so this is what we can say: we actually had a bunch of shows booked this year that have been put off the next year, so my goal is to make Cirith Ungol final tour be like Kissās final tour and last for five years [laughs].
[TB] At least one year.
[RG] Yeah, because it can still be the final tour, but if it never endsā¦ [laughs]
Last year a lot happened in Cirith Ungol: you released āDark Paradeā, the second album since you came back, but also you parted ways with Jimmy Barraza and, as we said, you announced your farewell tour. When you announced that Jimmy was leaving you said that the band wouldnāt split up and youād go on to support the new album, but only a couple of weeks later you announced that 2024 would be your last year performing live. Technically the two statements are not contradictory, you said youād keep on playing to support āDark Paradeā and that what you did throughout 2024, but still I think some of your fans were confused by the timing of those statements, what happened there?
[TB] Yeah, thatās basically what the change of plan was, yeah.
[RG] We donāt want to talk too much about personal issues because they get kind of thorny, but we will say: Jimmy had some health issues, and so he stepped back from the band. Armand, who is in Night Demon also, recorded our last three albums ā āForever Blackā, āHalf Past Humanā, āDark Paradeā and our new upcoming live album at the Roxy ā so, heās been our friend for the last ten years and he said he would step in to just play one or two shows and it kind of mirrors what our whole band did. When we came back, we said weād play maybe Keep It True, Up the Hammers, you know, just for our fans but then things started picking up speed rolling downhill like a snowball. So, thatās what happened with Armand, he was gonna play one or two shows and he started enjoying it, heās having fun, and weāre playing, I think, better than we ever did, ever. Even when all the other people were in the band originally, so I mean, thatās kind of where weāre at, to be honest.
Do you think that, whatever happens live with this farewell tour, whether it lasts a few months or years, you will keep working in the studio on new music?
[TB] Well, itās the same story as the lives, I mean, weāre just kind of playing by ear right now, see how it goes. I mean, we donāt know what the future is gonna hold. We have to wait and see, really. Weāre not promising anything.
[RG] But weāre not ruling nothing out because, listen, at our age we donāt have time to jerk around. You know what I mean? We canāt we canāt take another 20 years off and get back together again, weāll be a hundred years old, right? So, I think what weāre gonna do is weāre gonna do this final tour, weāre gonna go home andā¦
[TB] Regroup and see what happens.
[RG] Yeah, then weāre gonna leave on our South American tour which is still part of our final tour and then weāre playing in Mexico, and Colorado, and New York, which was still supposed to be this year and itās next year.
[TB] Thatās all good.
[RG] Iām still, like I said, Iām still hoping for something like a Kissā five-year final tour.
As we mentioned earlier, Cirith Ungol came back recently, that was at the Frost and Fire Festival in 2016 and at that time you hadnāt been active for pretty much 25 years. I wasnāt around in ā91, but I believe that overtime you gained a fairly large cult following, I know for a fact that in recent years there was a lot of interest in the band in certain music circles. How aware were you of the interest that surrounded the band in those years?
[TB] Yeah, yeah, itās all because of the internet, really. The proliferation of the music festivals focused on this genre that are happening today all over the world, you know, theyāre smaller, kind of underground festival. Weāre at one right now thatās not really that small, but itās not a huge, huge festival. Thereās a lot of bands that the mainstream music fans might not know. So, I mean itās a combination of that and the internet. Thatās really what helped us out,
[RG] Plus also Metal Blade Records, our long-time record company, they kept all of our albums in print, you know, not always all at the same time but theyād re-release some, make them available to the public and a lot of magazines here in Europe, Deaf Forever, Sweden Rocks, Metal Hammer, a lot of the magazines would do articles on us from time to time like retrospectives about this old band that was so great or what have you. Weāll never be a big band but the people that love us love us because we never gave up on our original vision. You know a lot of bands over the years would change, change styles, or change their outlook on life and stuff. All Iāve ever wanted to do is play the heaviest metal that we could and I think the difference between a lot of other bands and us is that if you listen to our last album, āDark Paradeā, I think this is our best album. Now āKing of the Deadā is one of the albums that everyone loves and itās fantastic, but that was in 1984. Iām trying to say I think this [album] has an energy and a power and the heaviness that we had back then 40 years later.
But I meant, were you aware of all that or did it catch you by surprise once you got back on the stages?
[TB] No, we are on the internet, if you are on Facebook and all the other social media things, oh, yeah, we saw that stuff and people are reaching out all the time.
[RG] People are writing us letters and when those magazine articles would come out, we knew that people were thinking about us. Matter of fact, one of the magazine articles I looked at recently was an Italian magazine, it was like 15 pages colour pages with all the albums. So, we figured thatā¦
[TB] Somebody must like us!
[RG] We know weāre just a regular band, but I think like I said our hardcore followers think, āHey, hereās a band that never gave up on its original visionā and weāre still on that same path today.
Cirith Ungol, together with bands like Manilla Road, Manowar, Warlord and others are considered among the fathers and best representatives of Epic Metal. While all these bands are American, nowadays it seems like you all are more popular in Europe than in your home country.
[TB] Oh, yeah.
How can you explain that?
[TB] Well, because usually the European Metal audiences seem to be smarter. No, I donāt want to say it because they like us or the other bands you just mentioned, but they seem to have much more of a diverse taste in what they like. I mean, over in America everybody just kind of follows along with whatās popular and just jump on that bandwagon and stuff. And I know Manilla Road feels the same way, they did a lot more stuff over here, more touring than they ever did over in the States.
[RG] We play in the United States and the average person in the crowd is over 50. We play in Europe and the average person seems to be under 30. So, we also think itās like Heavy metal is kind ofā¦
[TB] Resurging.
[RG] Yeah, and itās not only resurging, but itās been kind of popular over here all along.
[TB] Yeah, in America, it goes up and down really badly, I mean, you wouldnāt even know that thereās even a Metal scene in America unless youāre IN the scene. Back in the 80s thatās all you saw, like on MTV or anywhere, it was the big thing and then it kind of went away. Over here it never really went anywhere. I mean, itās always been right there, popular. Underground but still kind of a big thing.
[RG] We just played like around ten shows in the US this last year, you know, and thereās people up people coming out to the shows, you know, itās a good audience, but it doesnāt have the intensity of here in Europe.
Yeah, if you go to Keep It True, where you played a few years back and will play next month, people are gonna know every single lyric from every single band.
[TB] I know, isnāt that amazing? Itās crazy, even bands that you never heard of you go there and go, āOh these guys know every song, man!ā. Our friend, the drummer of Night Demon, Brian, heās a vinyl guy and heās like this. You know, heās the king of obscure stuff, you ask him about any Metal band from back in the day and heāll know about. I mean, heās probably right now over in the merch over here like looking through all the vinyl.
[RG] Iāll tell you a funny story about the last time we played there. One of our hero bands, Luciferās Friends, from Germany, played and we headlined one night, they headlined the otherā¦
[TB] That was Hammer of Doom, wasnāt it?
[RG] Yeah, but Hammer of Doom kind of morphed into Keep It True Rising. Seeing a band, once again, thatās a band that we grew up with, you know, we were in a band and that was a band that we were like looking up to over here, and being able to play with bands like that has really been incredible. We recently played in Ireland with Brian Downey from Thin Lizzy and that was another special one. But, you know, weāre losing that whole generation. Weāre losing them quickly. So, you know, thatās why weāre trying to likeā¦
[TB] Get out there and do it.
[RG] Yeah, keep the flame alive.
Now, moving to āDark Paradeā, as we said this is your second album after your comeback, how were the processes of songwriting and recording compared to āForever Blackā, have things become smoother after some years back together, or is all the same?
[RG] I think weāve done it the same all along, you know. I always tell people if we gave out our secret recipe, it wouldnāt be a secret recipe anymore. Anyway, everyone can write song lyrics, but Tim writes most of the lyrics. But the one thing that we have done is weāve kind of morphed, weāve always been kind of like a fantasy-based band, but weāve had doomā¦ One of the first songs that we ever wrote on āMetal Massacre 1ā was āDeath of the Sunā about the end of the Earth and the sun, so weāve had that all along. Our latest several albums have been morphing slowly into what āDark Paradeā is which is like the ultimate doom Metal experience. I donāt know what heās got to say.
[TB] Well, not musically, but certainly lyrically.
[RG] But this albumās heavy, man. Weāre gonna play some songs tomorrow night, but when I listen to the album Iām just like, āWow!ā, thatās what we were shooting for. Itās what I wanted, something that I am really proud of.
You mentioned the lyrics, could it be considered a sort of concept album?
[TB] Well, a lot of it is just a basic commentary on whatās going on in the world, which is always near the end, isnāt it? You know what I mean? Itās like one step away from that, like the Doomsday Clock is one minute to midnight, I guess somebody once said. Thatās pretty much what Iām talking about.
[RG] Itās the earthās final tour too.
[TB] Yeah, thatās true. Yeah, so thatās what thatās about.
Going out with a bang.
[RG] Well, letās hope we donāt go out with a bang [laughs].
[TB] Well, yeah, weāre getting close.
Because of the timing of things, you wrote this last album during the pandemic. Do you feel like it has influenced it in any way, either musically or lyrically?
[TB] Not any more than anything else would. All the catastrophes, all the crap that goes on in the world is like, that was just one thing piled on top of it that made it even more insufferable for the planet. It was what it was.
Itās a weird thing as people look at it now, that went on for almost three freaking years, man, but there has been this erasure from everybodyās memory like a missingā¦ Itās like getting abducted from aliens and you come back and youāre sitting in your bedroom and you think, āWhere have I been for three days?ā but the truth is, āOh shit. Where did those three years go, man?ā
[RG] Definitely when our previous album, āForever Blackā, came out, it was on something like March 20th, and it was like the first day of the actual pandemic. I remember walking around my neighbourhood, it was like in a science fiction movie: no one around, no pets, no birds, no cars.
[TB] So we had nothing else to do than going down that big doomy rabbit hole that we did on āDark Paradeā.
Something that I find really impressive about āDark Paradeā and āForever Blackā is how they sound 100% Cirith Ungol while sounding fresh and without copying yourselves, how they sound modern yet very old school. Is it hard to find this balance, is it the result of a very delicate process of crafting your songs, or is it just the natural way they come out?
[RG] I read on āForever Blackā and on this album people saying that they sound like itās from the 80s, but thatās kind of when our heyday was and so itād be kind of like if The Beatles were still all alive and they got together and put on an album, no one would question like, āHey, wow, they sound like the Beatlesā. I think we just picked up where we left off.
[TB] Well, plus it sounds way better, I think that these albums are just better musically. I mean, we were younger back then, I wouldnāt say we didnāt know what we were doing but, you know, we were just going for it, doing our 80s Metal kind of stuff. But modern technology and being able to be in the studio and do what weāve wanted to do because, like I said, Armand recorded all this stuff in the studio which is in the same building as where we have our practice place, so we just walk over there and record. It was a match made in heaven and I think it really helped out. Instead of having to go somewhere, have limited recording time and go in and do all that kind of suffering through, which weāve done on the older albums. With these we had a lot more leeway, a lot more time to do stuff and make it sound right and be the way that we wanted it to be. To me they still could have been a lot, lot, lot better, but I mean they are pretty good. I mean they sound good and the songs are great. So, itās still something we can be satisfied with. Modern technology and being able to get in here and have the time to do what we want to do is what I think makes it better, it makes it different and the same as back in the day.
[RG] What we didnāt do is, thereās no triggered drums, thereās no weird auto-tune vocals or any of that kind of stuff. I read recently on Youtube some guy who, talking about āVelocityā, he said, āI guess the singer didnāt know he was singing in a different key than the guitarā or something. But we just write songsā¦
[TB] I donāt even know what heās talking about! [Laughs]
[RG] Yeah, you know, weāre just trying to play the heaviest music, we donāt try to overanalyse it, but weāre also trying to come at it the same way we did. Even though some of the technology is new, we were on tape and now itās digital, we didnāt do that much different than we did originally. It just the equipmentās a little bit more modern.
[TB] Oh, itās just so much easier to record nowadays!
You mentioned The Beatles and, going way, way back, you first started to play together as Titanic and I know that when you started out you were playing The Beatles music. While some point of contact can be found in songs like āHelter Skelterā or āI Want You (Sheās So Heavy)ā, which is basically an ancestor to Doom Metal, of course the music of Cirith Ungol is very different from theirs.
[RG] Well, you know what, we grew up at that time but to be honest it was one of the guys, and heās passed away, Pat Galligan, he was in the Angry Samoans after he left our band, he did some Punk stuff, but The Beatles was his thing. We kind of we played along with it, and Tim wasnāt even in the band then.
[TB] I have nothing to say about that, nobody can blame me for that [laughs].
[RG] Yeah, but listen, I love The Beatles, but at the time thoughā¦
[TB] It was like a gateway drug to other things, you know, I mean, so thatās really what it was. And then we start listening to other stuff like The Doors, then you move on to Mountain.
[RG] Yeah, Blue Cheer.
[TB] And then Black Sabbath comes along, you know, at that point you think, uh, the Beatles? Okay. [Laughs]
[RG] And we were there on the front row. I remember being over at the record store across from our school and Black Sabbathās first album was there. One of the guys in the band standing next to me and goes, āHey man, do you think these guys are any good?ā. So, itās like we counter on the ground floor of all that and we were in a band at the same time, so we had a chance to at least kind of being around through almost a whole history ofā¦
[TB] ā¦of Metal. Oh, yeah, of course.
[RG] But even at the time of The Beatles, you know, itās like Jimi Hendrix, and Cream and so on. Thereās a lot of bands swirling around that same era that were just a little bit heavier, and I think thatās the stuff that we lean towards.
I can tell you like The Beatles and like I said, some of that stuff is classic if you listen to any of that, but I think weāre probably more like the Helter Skelter part of The Beatles, you know.
My final question was going to be if you thought you might back together in the future to play again, like you did the last time after a 25 years break, but you already answered meā¦
[TB] There you go, this is the future for us. Like Rob said, even if we tried to take a break and things like that, weāre not getting any younger and like he said a lot of the bands youāre seeing around, even some of the bands that are playing at this festival, we all came up at the same time. Everybodyās kind of looking at the end of their run here, you know, so itās a matter of wait and see, but donāt wait too long to see what happens.
[RG] This is the truth from my perspective: Iām not ready to quit yet. And I will do anything in my power, Iām gonna try to keep the band moving forward one way or another.
And we will leave it up to you to watch our show tomorrow night and let us know whetherā¦
[TB] ā¦ Thatās a good idea.
[RG] And if you think that we have anything left to offer the world.
I think this is going to be a killer show tomorrow night. Our set covers pretty much our whole career and you know, we tried to putā¦ thatās another weird thing: as we keep putting albums out and write really good material, this last year me and Tim wanted to play every song on this album, because back in the day like when Black Sabbath came out, when I saw them at the time of Vol. 4, theyād come out on stage and basically play their whole new album and maybe something like Paranoid or War Pigs or something, right?
But look, we understand that a lot of our fans who have never seen us before they would like to see a mix of the stuff. So, thereās a little bit off of every album.
Or you can just do a three hour show and play everything.
[TB] Oh, well [fake coughs then laughs].
[RG] Well, we have played with a lot of big bands and for the bands that do the three hours show thereās actually like one hour music and like around two hours of other stuff.
[TB] Yeah, them doing the crowd work. Yeah, weāre not doing that [laughs] we try to get through as much stuff as we can.
Source:
https://www.truemetal.it/heavy-metal-news/cirith-ungol-interview-robert-garven-and-tim-baker-1169246