(GR) • Zine No Clean Singing • Chapter Interview: Cirith Ungol • Journalist
John Sleepwalker
• Published Sat 27 May 2017
- ๐ Copy short link
- ๐ Back to Media
- « Interview with Cirith Ungol By Elpida Baphomet | The Metal Crypt »
- โ ๏ธ Add, Edit or Remove your item
- ๐ No Clean Singing (DuckDuckGo search or Google search or WP search or FB)
Originally formed circa 1972, the California heavy metal bandย Cirith Ungolย released four albums between 1980 and 1991 before disbanding, and in the process amassed an ardent world-wide fan following. The band reunited in 2015 for theย Frost and Fireย festival, and are continuing to forge ahead with festival appearances โ and writing new music as well.
Greek writerย John Sleepwalkerย ofย Avopolis.grย returns to NCS with this interview ofย Tim Baker,ย Greg Lindstrom,ย Jimmy Barraza, andย Rob Garvenย leading up toย Cirith Ungolโsย performance at theย Up the Hammers Festivalย in Athens, Greece, on May 27, 2017.
******
First of all, what made a Cirith Ungol reunion possible after all these years? I think there was quite some interest from Greece too, for quite some time, but the band was very negative until nowโฆ
Rob:ย Jarvis Leatherbyย fromย Night Demonย lives in our home town and he told me that when they traveled to Europe on tour they would see many fans wearing โCirith Ungolโ shirts, and patches, and many there knew of our band and music. I had sworn a blood oath that I would never play drums again, so I had always told him very politely that I was not interested. Everything changed at the โFrost & Fireโ festival in 2015.ย Oliver Weinsheimerfrom the very famous and exclusive โKeep It True Festivalโ had come over for the show.ย Jarvisย andย Oliverasked to speak to the band alone.
Oliverย had been contacting me for more than 10 years, with an interest to have the band play at his festival. I had always told him no also.ย Jarvisย said if we got back together he would be our manager andย Oliverย invitedย Timย and I over to the โKeep it True Festival IXโ where we were treated like royalty. We were so impressed that there was no doubt in our mind that we wanted to be part of this! If it were not for these two gentlemen, the band would have never re-formed. The band and our fans owe them both a debt of gratitude. As soon as were playing again we were honored to be offered to play at โUp the Hammersโ which we are really looking forward to!
Greg: It took some poking and prodding byย Jarvisย andย Oliver, but after meeting some of our fans at the firstย Frost & Fireย event in 2015 who flew halfway around the world just to talk to us, I realized we had to give it one more shot.
Jimmy: What made it possible is that each one of us still had the ability to play music. We didnโt know until early 2016, whenย Jarvisย invited us all toย Night Demonโsย rehearsal room, and we gave it a try. I had put the guitar down from about 1994-2002 and only in the past decade have found a new love for playing the instrument. It was something that was missing in my Life. Around 2010ย Manolis Karazeisย had connected with me on Facebook. We exchanged words in regards to a reuinion for a few years and always ended up coming to the realization that a reunion was unlikely to ever happen. I personally am blown away atย Tim Bakerโsย vocal abilities after all these years. I had always kept a positive intention to reunite and Iโm very pleased that we did.
You played your first show since 1991 at the Frost and Fire event. What were your impressions, and how powerful does the band feel on stage at this point?
Tim: I thought the show went pretty well for us not being on a stage for 25 years! It feels really good to be back playing with all the guys again โ and more importantly, to be able to rekindle our friendship after all these years is very special too.
Greg: We rehearsed for ten months prior to the F&F show, and the show went pretty well. Right now, I would compare us to a normally aspirated V-8 engine, and as time goes on, we will add twin turbos for even more power!
Jimmy: A home town reunion show in the company of family, friends, and fans from around the world was very fitting. To be on the very same stage we walked off of 25 years ago suddenly had a feeling of resurrection. It was fantastic.
Rob: It was pretty special, so many fans from all over the world, came to our small seaside town Ventura, California. We played at the same venue where our last show was held before we broke up, so it had special meaning for the band. There was some pressure on us to put on a great show to wipe out some of the bad memories from the past! I am always critical of myself, and never feel I play good, but the other guys rocked! After the show a friend of the band played a recording he made of the show, which we listened to. I was quite impressed by the recording and now believe that for our first show in so long was very heavy. I felt the band had a very powerful sound and I think even though older we still have what it takes!
The goal is for every show to be better than the one before! In addition to โKeep it True Festivalโ and โUp the Hammersโ, we are playing twice more in Germany at โChaos Descendsโ and โHammer of Doomโ. We are playing a few festivals in the US โ โDefenders of the Oldโ in Brooklyn, New York, โDays of Darknessโ in Baltimore, Maryland, and โPsycho Las Vegasโ.
Cirith Ungolโs current line-up is as close as it gets to the real deal (since Jerry Fogle has passed awayโฆ). Michael โFlintโ Vujea is the only person missing. How important did it feel that everyone should be back together? And how did Jarvis Leatherby join the band?
Tim: It was very important to get as many of the members involved in the reunion, as otherwise it just would not feel right! When it became apparent thatย Flintย was not going to be a part of it, we were more than happy forย Jarvisย to come in on bass โ he is a great guy and a great player too. I also want to mention that my sonย Matthewย is filling in on bass at most of our practices sinceย Jarvisย andย Night Demonย are such road warriors, and donโt be surprised if he shows up on stage sometime!
Greg: We wanted to get as close to the original crew as possible to capture that thirty-year-old vibe.
Jimmy: Something noteworthy is the fact thatย Jarvisย currently is the 5th Bass Player Iโve played with during my time inย Cirith Ungolย (Flint,ย Bob Warrensburg,ย Vern Green,ย Greg Lindstrom,ย Jarvis Leatherby). My hopes were high thatย Michael Vujeaย would accept the offer, but upon his withdrawal, it seemed only natural forย Jarvisto take that position. Time was running short and we had shows scheduled soon. We are very fortunate to have him aboard.
Rob: The definition ofย Jarvis Leatherbyย is โAll Metal All the Timeโ! He is a powerhouse and a force unto himself. His goal was to get the band back together and no one wanted all the original members more than him. When it became apparent that thatย Flintย could not play, he decided to step in on bass. He has done his best to play the original bass as it was written, and we are lucky to have him as a bass player and friend.
The differences betweenย Frost and Fireย andย King of the Deadย seem pretty vast in styleโฆ how did this progression happen? What memories do you have from creating material during those two eras?
Greg: Most of the songs onย F&Fย were written during the previous 12 months and are slightly more mainstream sounding than theย KOTDย songs. If we had recordedย F&Fย a year earlier, it would have been a very different sounding album. It would likely have included โAtom Smasherโ, โDeath of the Sunโ, โFinger of Scornโ, and โCirith Ungolโ, since those songs were all written in 1977-78. I think a lot of the perceived difference is in the recording.ย KOTDย is much rawer thanย F&F, which we played heavy but got recorded a little bit too cleanly.
Rob: Some of the difference was due to the time between albums and the bandโs natural progression. Onย Frost & Fireย we used most of our songs that had more of a commercial tone in order to secure either radio airplay, or major-label support. There is a bit of confusion here, which I can clear up. At the same time thatย Frost & Fireย was released the band was playing other songs such as, โCirith Ungolโ and โDeath of the Sunโ. After the local hard rock station KLOS in Los Angeles played โFrost & Fireโ, and โIโm Aliveโ on a local new band night, we were told the music was too heavy, which confused us a bit. We decided that if our commercial songs were too heavy, then on our next album we would really pull out all the stops, and play what we really wanted to, the heaviest metal known the man! The result wasย King of the Dead, โA Churning Maelstrom of Metal Chaos Descending!โย Gregย wrote all of the songs onย Frost & Fire, andย Jerryย wrote the leads and myself the drum parts. On our other songs there was always a collaboration between all the members. I wrote some of the lyrics, โKing of the Deadโ, โDeath of the Sunโ, โDoomed Planetโ, etc., and on the later albumsย Timย wrote the other lyrics. But the band always worked together to create that special โCirith Ungolโ style!
Jim Barraza was the guitarist forย Paradise Lost, an album underrated in Cirith Ungolโs history. Mostly because it is less diverse and more straightforward than your known aesthetics. How come a reissue tookย so many years to happen? And what was the situation within the band at the times of its release?
Jimmy: โJoin the Legionโ and the three final tracks (Trilogy) will stand the test of time. It is my opinion that these songs deserve to be included in the best material Ungol has ever recorded. When we play these songs live, they definitely take more skill and stamina to play them well.
Rob: There was quite a bit of turmoil during the latter stages of our career at that time โ the extended time between albums, lack of professional management, and not being at the right place at the right time.ย Jerryย left the band because he thought we were trying to replace him withย Jimmy. What we were really trying to do was add a second guitarist. However, no matter what we tried to do to convince him otherwise, we could not get him to come back.ย Flintย left the band, and came back after a while, only to leave again. We had signed a tentative agreement withย Enigma Records, but they were in the process of being sold, and reforming asย Restless Records. This delay, along with the musical genres of the time fading in and out, took a toll on the band.
This is a good time to correct a misconception about the delay between our albums. To set the record straight, we had most if not all of the material for each new album, right after the previous album was released. The delays were caused by outside influences that we could not control. The delay in the release was caused byย Restlessย selling the rights toย Warnerโs Musicย and their refusal to allow it to be licensed.ย Metal Blade Recordstried for several years unsuccessfully to re-release it until somehow they finally got the chance, but it was limited to a small number. When we signed that contract forย Paradise Lostย we ended up signing away the rights to the music forever, without our knowledge, so unfortunately we have no control. There has been a systematic attempt over the years by the owners not to license the album, which we have never understoodโฆ..
Tim: I will agree with bothย Jimmyย andย Robย here โ the holdup in getting the rights was quite strange. But asย Jimmyย said โ some ofย Paradise Lostย is as good if not better than a lot of our catalog.
Do you consider the possibility of writing new material too, or are you focusing exclusively on gigs? In the case of a new album, how do you think it should sound like?ย King of the Deadย style would sound a bit โdatedโ in our times, but every new Cirith Ungol recording will be compared to it.
Tim: We are definitely writing new material and as far as what it will sound like, well we have no restrictions on anything! Some of it may hearken back to aย KOTDย vibe but with a moreย Paradise Lostย feel, if that makes any sense!
Greg: I may be showing my age again, but I would disagree that anything onย KOTDย sounds dated. We are working on new material, very much in the CU style. I personally canโt write a song in any other style, so whatever comes out is probably going to sound like CU!
Jimmy: Currently focusing on Gigs, But seizing any opportunities to write new material and we have recorded some basic tracks for a few new songs. I think that no matter the outcome, any new songs that will ever be released will have a bit of KOTD flare to it, Intentionally or unintentionally.
Rob: We have already started working on new material.ย Timย has written some pretty incredible lyrics and we have a few songs almost completed. Obviously the goal is to release a new studio album on par withย King of the Dead! Our style has changed a bit since then, but our hallmark has never been to play what is commercially popular at the time but to write songs that resonate with the inner consciousness of the band! We have plenty of older songs that we could and probably will re-do, however there is still more ultra heavy material in โCirith Ungolโ that cannot be contained!
Cirith Ungol had always been very much into J.R.R. Tolkien and Michael Moorcock. Do you think the aesthetic of the books somehow is translated into Cirith Ungolโs sound? The sound is obscure and epic, while weird and a bit โnaiveโ (but in a good way, that of restless youth). And at the same time thereโs a lot of depth and musicianship.
Greg: I never really thought of fantasy writers influencing our music, but for sureย Tolkien,ย Moorcock, and many others (Fritz Leiber,ย Jack Vance,ย Robert E. Howard,ย Clark Ashton Smith) had a huge influence on our lyrics. And since the music needs to blend with the lyrics, I guess you could say that a lot of our music contains a fantasy aspect.
Tim: I think that we try to make the sound echo the lyrical content as much as possible. Iโve readย Tolkienย andย Moorcockย but not the othersย Gregย mentions, yet.ย Paradise Lostย in particular was obviously more influenced by old classic tomes byย Miltonย andย Dante. Some of our stuff is certainly cloaked in Sword and Sorcery but really they are a commentary on the rapidly approaching dystopian future of mankind. Or just about cars and girls, Iโm not sure any more hahaha!!
Jimmy: I know for me, when I think of new riffs it helps to look at the album covers and get a feel for the mood and think what the sound track to this painting might sound like.. As I recall, thatโs kind of how the guitar parts for the song โParadise Lostโ were inspired. After playing many ofย Jerryโsย solos, Iโve come to a better understanding of the โweirdโ style ofย Fogle. I have appreciation forย Jerryโsย creative expression which parallels these classic fantasy books in the form of an original and obscure musical odyssey.
Rob: When I first metย Greg, we were in an advanced English class, and one of our assignments was to readย The Lord of the Rings. At the timeย Gregย was a prolific reader and he was reading all sorts of โSword and Sorceryโ literature. He turned us on to all sorts of great books,ย Conan,ย Kane, andย Michael Moorcock! I think the imagery and tone of the books and artwork has influenced our style, but we have tried to create an alternate universe musically. By staying true to ourselves we have managed to cultivate our unique style of metal.
We were hoping to have an album cover that was painted by famous artistย Frank Frazetta, but then the cover we had wanted came out on an album for the band โMolly Hatchetโ. We were quite bummed out. I was reading the bookย Stormbringerย byย Michael Moorcockย at the time and I remember looking at the cover of the book and thinking this would be the best album cover of all time. We contacted the publisher DAW Books and they put us in contact withย Michael Whelan, who turned out to be the best friend the band ever had! We were extremely lucky to have his fantastic illustrations grace four of our album covers. He recently had a rare show near Los Angeles, andย Timย and I traveled to see it. His work is so fantastic it defies description. The painting โStormbringerโ, was there and I was mesmerized by its imagery! We got to talk with him, and he is interested in possibly doing another Elric cover for the band! Unfortunately we never got to meet withย Michael Moorcock, but needless to say his work influenced our music greatly!
What bands of your times that you never played with would you pick to join you on stage now? And what bands would you bring back to remember the good days?
Rob:ย I have many favorite bands new and old. I really likeย Dexter Ward,ย Night Demon, but also bands such asย Powerwolf. We are playing with the bandย Luciferโs Friend, andย Captain Beyondย at some upcoming shows, both which are on my top ten list of bands! There are so many good bands โ if I could pick a few they would beย Thin Lizzy,ย Sir Lord Baltimore,ย Dustย ,ย Trapeze.
Greg: There are so many! Iโm excited to be playing withย Luciferโs Friendย later this year atย Hammer of Doomย in Germany, andย Captain Beyondย in Baltimore. Since Iโm a โ70s guy, I would love to seeย Mountain,ย Stray Dog, andย Trapezeย re-form with as many original members as possible, and show us how itโs done!
Jimmy:ย Rosae Crusisย andย Dexter Ward! And Iโd personally like to play with the Cirith Ungol Tribute Bandย Finger of Scornย and/ or lay down some tracks withย Dexter Wardย one day.
What are your expectations forย your upcoming show at Up The Hammers Festival in Athens? Personally, I donโt know what to expect, but I know for sure some of your most die-hard fans live here.
Tim: I think it will be fantastic!! The Greek fans/friends have ALWAYS been some of our most ardent supporters. To finally go there and play for them is like a dream for us, and I really look forward to meeting everyone and putting on a great show for them!!
Greg: Iโm really looking forward to visiting the cradle of civilization, and looking forward to a great show!
Jimmy: Iโm sure that the Greek fans will fuel the fire and get us pumped up to give the best performance we possibly can. Looking forward to seeing everyone at Gagarin 205/Athens, Greece on Sat, 27 May 2017
Rob: I am expecting the Greek fans to go crazy! We have had many fans from Greece since the early days and it was our dream to travel here to play for them. I think there will be much emotion onstage and in the audience that night! It will be โA Churning Maelstrom of Metal Chaos Descending!โ
Last question is a silly one. How do you pronounce your name? Sirith Ungol, or Kirith Ungol?
Rob: In the book it is pronounced with the โKโ, but even though we were prolific readers, we probably did not read the appendix inย Lord of the Rings, which outlined that, so we always pronounced the band with a โCโ sound! Everyone else can pronounce it however they like!!
Greg: I knowย J.R.R. Tolkienย is rolling over in his grave, but we pronounce it as โSirith Ungolโ.
Jimmy: I pronouce it โSearith Un-goalโ.
Tim: I pronounce it โArthurโ.
